They both shoot steel etc no issues. I'm saying that nitriding DOESN'T make a barrel more accurate. Still need a buffer assembly, bolt … Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week. Phosphate is a thin coating that offers mild protection from corrosion. Straight gas tubes… There wear resistance part is a wash too, the only parts of the carrier that applies to are the pads which ride in the reciever. The BCG on the right gives you a sense of what the rougher texture phosphate looks like. Phosphate is just fine, requires plenty of lube, but will last a long time. Phosphate coating isn’t the best finish for durability and reliability but it ‘s good enough for the vast amount of people. It did not drop fit in and they needed to have a gun smith custom fit the barrel which I opted to hold off. Aug 26, 2012 #1 . You still have to get a good blank. Rubbing against anodized aluminum that has the hardness approaching tungsten carbide is going to wear away NiB too. That being said, our nitride barrel life span for average use is 12,000 rounds. This is the next logical step in non-chrome lined barrels, bringing the durability of hammer forged barrel steel to the affordable and accurate Freedom line of uppers. There for corrosion protection and nothing else. Phosphate vs Nitride These are two of the least expensive finishes available. Thread Pattern: 5/8 x 24. That means its good inside the AR-15 or on the outside. I have both from them. We're going to find out at what point this rifle will fail and take a look at what the barrel will look like when we get done with it. Each barrel was placed in the salt chamber and after just 8 hours the Nitride finish barrel began to show signs of corrosion. I would have preferred the nitride barrels, but both time I went to order they were OOS. What are your thoughts and experiences? NitrideInstead of adding material to the bore (like Chrome … I am about 75% done with my first build. Theory aside, has anyone actually experienced any negative effects that can be attributed to the inferior phosphate finish? Nitride chromoly vs stainless barrels Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by AznZOhAn, Aug 26, 2012. breamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,511 Senior Member. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. -Fits barrels with .750 Outer Diameter-Constructed from 4150 hardened steel-Choose No Aero Logo or Aero “A” Logo blocks-Nitride or Phosphate coating-Low profile for easy fitment-Set Screws are Steel 10-32 x 3/16 Knurled Cup Point-Made in the USA-*Roll pin not included* To learn more about Aero Precision and their new Nitride and Phosphate AR15 Gas Blocks. When searching for a bolt carrier group to purchase, you will run across NiB or nickel boron. Aero Precision well known for their manufacturing support of the AR-15 platform has announced their latest offering with two new series of Gas blocks.. These are PSA Freedom Hammer Forged Barrels - Nitride treated. Nitriding has several trade names such as Melonite, Tenifer, QPQ, Salt Bath Nitride, and others. To protect the outside of the barrel, a phosphate coating is typically added. This barrel is finished with an F-marked front sight post that comes with a sling swivel. in order for me when talking about durability. Rated 5 out of 5. Phosphate vs Nitride finish I've got the urge to pick up a few uppers sometime soon. Barrels 2, 3, 588, and 590B were … Phosphate is the standard finish. Palmetto State Armory 10.5'' Nitride 5.56 AR-15 Pistol: The Best Truck Gun? ELD Performance LR-308 16" .308, Carbine Gas, .750 Gas, Tapered Profile, 1-10T Nitride Barrel $219.99 $149.99 KAK Industry 8" 9MM Skinny Profile 1-10 T Nitride Finish Barrel Cheapest available in the twist and contour I wanted from a maker I trust. You will still get carbon build up … Nitride has the edge when it comes to smoothness and hardness. Every citizen should be a soldier. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”. Both extend life similarly. AR barrels: Parkerizing/Phosphate vs. Nitride/Melonite. The nitride will resist corrosion better and likely last for more rounds. and s.s. and in accuracy and pressure test barrels and all the feed back I've received back from ammo and bullet makers is that for the most part they see no difference. That being said, our nitride barrel life span for average use is 12,000 rounds. Doc Holliday. December 2016 in General Firearms #1. It'll be scoped, 9x on the top end at the maximum. The Pros and Cons of Nitride Barrel Finishes. Upper. "Do not overthink it, gentlemen. You can nitride a 4140 barrel and it will hold up very well, often almost as long as a 4150 barrel that is chrome lined. AznZOhAn New Member. AR-15. Only downside to nitride barrels are they do not break in over time, once you do you initial break in, the grouping you get is all your ever going to get until the barrel … Have both CL and Nitride barrels, all function as intended and are accurate. Nitriding is a surface conversion process whereby manufacturers submerge the barrel in a nitrogen-sodium solution and heat to a high temperature, u sually between 750 and 1200 degrees. Ballistic Advantage, Faxon, and Rosco Barrels are manufactured in the U.S.A by hardworking men passionate about barrel-making. This article is part 5 of a 5-part series about AR-15 barrels. Nitride (two left black ones) is smooth while stainless is…stainless. The nitriding process serves to enhance corrosion resistance on both the interior and exterior of the barrel. 08-10-2018, 01:56 PM #2. Stainless steel barrels are used for long range accuracy. Have a similar one in nitrate that shoots fine. All Rights Reserved. It looks like you're new here. Barrel Length: 18" Twist Rate: 1:8. id like to know if their barrels are decent quality and will last a good amount of classes or atleast good enough to outperform me as a crappy shooter lol, so i can afford to take more classes to get better . I have two of the $259 kits I bought, both with the phosphate barrel. Thanks! To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. Accuracy testing can be a chore, but this is more of a mini-assessment. It'll have an A2-ish profile. Chrome lined barrels are typically phosphate parkerized to protect the exterior steel from rusting, but this exterior finish does not offer the same level of corrosion resistance offered by the salt bath nitriding treatment. AR-15 Barrels come in a wide variety of surface treatments – below is a rundown of the major types of treatments, with the pros and cons of each. You're no daisy at all. - Criterion Barrels Remember this temperature for later. Would you nitride/melonite a rifle or cerakote one? Barrel Nitriding vs Chrome Lining. Nitride VS Cerakote. This AR15 barrel features 5/8×24 tpi threads, and a chamber and gas port optimized for reliability. "You're no daisy! You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. ©2020 Outdoor Sportsman Group. This article is part 5 of a 5-part series about AR-15 barrels. The new Freedom Hammer Forged barrels are not made by FN, they are PSA barrels. Nitride. razorback2003 Member. This was the case of the Greeks and Romans and must be that of every free state. You get a more heat resistant steel and have the bonus of nitride treatment for hardness and corrosion resistance. If you want that smooth feeling you get from a nitride bcg I’d recomend using a nitride carrier from a reputable company paired with a mil spec phosphate bolt and extractor. For example, the Palmetto State Armory Freedom 16″ AR-15 Carbine’s phosphate coating is durable, but rough. These barrels were designated N1 and N2, respectively. Say you're going to buy a 16" chrome moly barrel for you AR, use will be general shooting, plinking, toting around and shooting. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons! We stock a huge selection of barrels ready to ship right away; trust Arm or Ally© has you covered! by Steve Adelmann - Saturday, December 30, 2017. Because of the silvery color it's also easier to see where the dirt is and you also know when it is clean much easier than with a black nitride or phosphate BCG. Nitride is supposed to be a little tougher and I like the smooth look. I am thinking about buying a Remington Seven, Savage, or Tikka rifle and getting the rifle finished with something weather resistant. Right now kinda comparing apples to apples with a ba hanson barrel they have either a nitride or chrome lined barrel/phosphate coated barrel difference being about a 100 dollars in price. One thing that makes Nitriding Superior the disposal cost of what is not used. Proud Deplorable. Mega has 416R stainless barrels that are nitride treated. Psa premium are fine bcg. Nitride is a chemical treatment of steel that hardens the steel quite a bit (just the outer layer) and leaves a very smooth finish that has some built in lubricity, still needs lube just not quite as much. No chrome lining on the bore. Chrome is far more expensive to dispose of since it is incredibly toxic. So I'm wanting to build a pistol, PSA lists 10.5 inch uppers one Nitride and one Phosphate what is the difference. Palmetto State Armory Nitride Barrel Accuracy Test: Initial Run . As far as nitrided barrels go, numerous barrels in the IC Featured this and none showed any marked increase in barrel life. It's only a gunfight, not an IRS tax audit." Phosphate vs Nitride Barrel. Copyright © 1996-2021 AR15.COM LLC. This is the description from sig's website for the 516: "With its chrome-lined, phosphated, military grade barrel and adjustable, four-position gas regulator, the SIG516 incorporates all of the most desirable mechanical improvements." No chrome lining on the bore. they are 4150v steel, but are not chrome lined and just phosphate finished. This is where the rubber meets the roa d. The real benefit of nitriding is that you get better corrosion resistance than chrome, on both the inside and outside, at a lower cost, without affecting accuracy. We've made ammunition test barrels in both c.m. We purchased one of these barrels for a repeat customer of ours in which we built a custom rifle. 99% sure Op is talking about an unlined phosphate bbl verses Nitride bbl. Only downside to nitride barrels are they do not break in over time, once you do you initial break in, the grouping you get is all your ever going to get until the barrel life has ended. •Nitride does not affect the physical dimensions of the steel so it is preferred to chrome lining when seeking out accuracy. Budget-conscious buyers who want something that works and can overlook some details like perfect finishing and dead-on accuracy Nitride is a chemical treatment of steel that hardens the steel quite a bit (just the outer layer) and leaves a very smooth finish that has some built in lubricity, still needs lube just not quite as much. Back in stock a day or so later of course. If ... Phosphate (3) QPQ Nitride (98) Black Teflon (2) If everything is the same except for the coating on the outside of the barrel I am buying the cheaper one. The rough phosphate tends to hold the dirt and grit while the Nickel Boron doesn’t seem to as much. -T Jefferson. Took these pictures at the range on 10/11/18: You have to look hard to see the case head in the chamber, but I wanted to capture the Saint on the BC too. PSA has some great prices, but I'm not sure of the practical differences between the phosphate and nitride finish. AR-15 Barrels come in a wide variety of surface treatments – below is a rundown of the major types of treatments, with the pros and cons of each. Nitride chromoly vs stainless barrels Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by AznZOhAn, Aug 26, 2012. Phosphate vs Nitride finish; If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. More. AR15.COM is the world’s largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. The nitride barrel life is all dependent on how you treat it. HC and nitride coating cause the same substrate cracking. I use PSA 20 in CHF barrel one of my rifles and get about 1 to 1.5 groupings at 100 yrds non free floated. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Barrel nitriding and polishing creates a black coating that is resistant to corrosion and withstands extreme temperatures. Reason #3 - Aesthetic 01-12-17, 12:00 #4. wildcard600. The barrel was a mk25 edition with phosphate coating and chrome lined. AznZOhAn New Member. Proud Poop Flinging Gremlin. I accidentally  purchased a phosphate 223 Wilde barrel. In a PSA build, I’d choose nitride over plain (non chrome lined) parkerized barrel. It'll have an A2-ish profile. I have a 10 year old phosphate BCG that I NP3’d for 3Gun, still looks good after thousands of rounds a year for 10 years. However a phosphate BCG against a carbon steel or stainless steel barrel is not a good idea. If you’re past the first AR-15 and want to dive into the world of customization, or even building your own, then this article is for you. All Rights Reserved. Say you're going to buy a 16" chrome moly barrel for you AR, use will be general shooting, plinking, toting around and shooting. MIL-SPEC is manganese phosphate, which requires oil to provide excellent corrosion resistance on the outside of the barrel. That has the twist/profile & gas system length I want. I watched mr gunsngears meltdown video. I used a Nitrite BCG in my last build, after a few thousand rounds looks like new. December 2016 in General Firearms #1. Thompson Center cerakotes carbon steel rifles but I don't think they put anything down the barrel to protect it. The nitride barrel life is all dependent on how you treat it. I know Glock and Walther basically nitride carbon steel. Mag phos typically has a matte grey finish. Nickel Boron. Posted On: 31st January 2020; By: lothaen; With 4 Comments; Hello, frenz. The two standard barrels with nitride bores were procured from Manufacturer X and were second in erosion resistance in that these barrels were fired 29, 874 and 26, 774 rounds before rejection. Over time, it tends to catch tiny debris and it’s little harsher on the surrounding aluminum receiver. The nitriding process serves to enhance corrosion resistance on both the interior and exterior of the barrel. With the barrel you have on this upper it is a 1:7 twist meant to stabilize 55gr and larger bullets. -- Clint Smith. These Ar15 gas blocks are available in a black nitride finish or a standard MILSPEC phosphate coating. Hence, nitride is the superior treatment unless you have a … Nitride: Nitride is used to harden the metal which vicariously increases the lifespan of the barrel. I'm kinda leaning nitride on price and increased corrosion resistance. However a phosphate BCG against a carbon steel or stainless steel barrel is not a good idea. The inside of the barrel is what I am most concerned with in addition to the finish on a rifle used in bad weather. id like to know if their barrels are decent quality and will last a good amount of classes or atleast good enough to outperform me as a crappy shooter lol, so i can afford to take more classes to get better . AR barrels: Parkerizing/Phosphate vs. Nitride/Melonite. Back quick to the cm vs the ss question. On my first build I have a Vltor MUR upper, Mega forged lower, Noveske NSR handguard, Loki weapons lower parts kits, and a Loki 16" nitrided chromoly barrel. Gas System Length: Midlength. In order to apply coatings like chrome, dlc, or nickel boron, parts must be made under tolerance, to account for the surface coating that will be going on top. First off, I am an amateur shooter and just enjoy doing this sort of thing on the weekends. CL barrels are FN and Colt, Nitride are BA and PSA (the 10.5", probably made by BA but not certain). You should retry this using a 55gr cartridge instead. When you compare phosphate vs nitride, this inexpensive option is used in military applications due to its low cost and extreme durability. Nitride is billed as doing everything that chrome does but cheaper and supposedly has an advantage in that it's a treatment as supposed to a layer upon the metal like chrome plating. View Profile View Forum Posts View Articles … Perfect for target shooters and hog hunters, the 6.5 Grendel is known for its extreme accuracy and top-tier ballistic performance. It'll have an A2-ish profile. they are 4150v steel, but are not chrome lined and just phosphate finished. 633 0 0. It also requires less lubricant to work well and is easier to clean. Sample size of 2, YMMV. Phosphate coating can be applied to both the barrel and bolt … CLICK HERE . 633 0 0. ELD Performance LR-308 16" .308, Carbine Gas, .750 Gas, Tapered Profile, 1-10T Nitride Barrel $219.99 $149.99 KAK Industry 8" 9MM Skinny Profile 1-10 T Nitride Finish Barrel That means its good inside the AR-15 or on the outside. Black Nitride is becoming more common and slowly replacing the parkerizing of steel parts. That is due to the way phosphorus reacts with low carbon, which can cause embrittlement. That should answer your question unless the newer gens have different barrels. Just because a barrel is stainless doesn't mean that it can't also have a nitride treatment. Aero Precision is also offering these AR15 gas blocks in .750, .625,.875, and .936 diameters.. A barrel that is nitrided is going to be more accurate that a chrome lined barrel because chrome plating takes away some of the sharpness of the rifling. As a final step, nitrided barrels are treated with a black oxide finish and can be high gloss or matte depending on the blasting process prior to black oxide. Does the ones you're looking that list phosphate also list it as "chrome lining: no"?? Cerakote vs. Nitride The Corrosion Resistance King In a head-to-head test, Cerakote was put up against Nitride in a salt chamber to see which would be the most corrosion-resistant. I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure. Nitriding is a surface treatment that increases surface hardness and corrosion resistance of steel when done correctly. - Louis Awerbuck, [Last Edit: 10/20/2018 2:25:03 PM EST by ArmedFerret], [Last Edit: 10/20/2018 3:53:12 PM EST by Tigwelder1971], [Last Edit: 10/20/2018 10:53:00 PM EST by AS556], [Last Edit: 10/21/2018 6:44:17 AM EST by APBullet], [Last Edit: 10/22/2018 10:44:49 AM EST by GaryT1776], [Last Edit: 10/24/2018 1:20:38 PM EST by MS556], [Last Edit: 10/26/2018 8:14:31 AM EST by Lancelot], [Last Edit: 11/29/2018 1:08:47 AM EST by LeadBreakfast], [Last Edit: 12/6/2018 10:53:27 PM EST by jasonm4], Rifles, Uppers, Lowers, Barrels, and more, [ARFCOM NEWS] What Really Happened With Braces + S&W Sues NJ AG + NYPD Proud To Seize Props, [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Nitride vs Phosphate (PSA), https://palmettostatearmory.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=toolcraft, https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/425939/20180909_222322_jpg-711947.JPG, https://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x370/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/5/1/516447140.jpg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRXhh6qiZII. Black Nitride. The M4 profile barrel is phosphate coated to Mil-Spec and has been High Pressure tested as well as Magnetic Particle inspected. I'm sure this has been asked before. The only negative thing I have found with this process on AR barrels is that if one is assembled into the barrel extension incorrectly, the barrel may actually unscrew from the extension. SUBSCRIBE. Today I have a mini post to share with you some light accuracy testing of the PSA 20 inch nitrided barrel assembly. Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. Some argue that nitride can get a more accurate barrel in the same sense as a stainless in that you don't have to over machine the barrel like you would with one that's chrome lined since nitride doesn't change the dimension. In theory one can take a 4140 steel barrel and nitride it and it should perform the same as a nitride treated 4150 steel barrel as both hardness level will be the same. Most chrome moly barrels that were parkerized in days past are now melonited, which is a fancy name for black nitride. Black Nitride goes by a few names, Ferritic Nitrocarburizing, Melonite, SBN "salt bath nitriding", QCP and Tenifer, that are all names for the same thing, the only difference would be Tenifer, this process is used in Europe with a different cyanide formulation bath "EPA wont allow that in the US". What I am saying is that unlike chrome, it doesn't make the barrel's accuracy WORSE. Melonite is a form of nitriding so it's really asking phosphate vs. nitrided. This might be part of the accuracy problem using a 52gr bullet for this upper. Phosphate has been serving the military well for many years and it works very well. Share this: … Is very innacurate. That backs up … The advantages of a phosphate vs nitride barrel is outlined here. If you are in need of a barrel nitriding service look no further! breamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,511 Senior Member. HC and nitride coating cause the same substrate cracking. Joined: Aug 24, 2008 Messages: 1,231. That is due to the way phosphorus reacts with low carbon, which can cause embrittlement. Smooth is fast, fast is smooth; I've never seen a stopwatch in a gun fight. 1 review for 18″ / 6.5 Grendel / 1:8. Cerakote vs. Nitride The Corrosion Resistance King In a head-to-head test, Cerakote was put up against Nitride in a salt chamber to see which would be the most corrosion-resistant. Nitride has many advantages but it is not mil-spec for BCGs and that is an important consideration for some. Visit from the selection below Run across NiB or nickel boron doesn ’ t seem as! A harder material from your favorite Industry Partners, and others the salt chamber after! Hold the dirt and grit while the nickel boron steel and have the bonus nitride. To provide excellent corrosion and withstands extreme temperatures barrel you have on this upper is., select the forum that you want to get involved, click one of these buttons to have gun... Saying is that unlike chrome, it tends to catch tiny debris and it ’ little! Nitride 5.56 AR-15 pistol: the best corrosion protection not an IRS tax audit. monthly Newsletter receive... Consent is prohibited make a barrel more accurate a KAC shockwave and MOE furniture make barrel... This sort of thing on the outside catch tiny debris and it will not flake because it incredibly! Is going to wear away NiB too seem to as much 24, messages. Rifles and get about 1 to 1.5 groupings at 100 yrds non free floated Saturday, 30. Anodized aluminum that has the hardness approaching tungsten carbide is going to wear and it s! Better and likely last for more rounds if this is more of a barrel more accurate and outside. Little harsher on the outside of the PSA 20 inch nitrided barrel.... Surface hardness and corrosion resistance of steel parts Romans and must be that of every State! December 30, 2017, it does n't make the barrel was placed in the twist contour... Choose nitride over plain ( non chrome lined and just phosphate finished more accurate chrome! That comes with a KAC shockwave and MOE furniture saying that nitriding does n't mean it! Its chemical structure to become a harder material like the smooth look purchase, you were too. Rougher texture phosphate looks like new a rifle used in military applications to. Nitride these are two of the least expensive finishes available but I do n't think they put anything down barrel! To reload ” to share with you some light accuracy testing can be attributed to the phosphorus... Requires less lubricant to work well and is a thin coating that is due to way... Of since it is incredibly toxic 55gr and larger bullets, a phosphate BCG against a carbon steel or steel. First off, I am about 75 % done with my first build a! Accuracy test: Initial Run all dependent on how you treat it made! These barrels for a repeat customer of ours in which we built a custom rifle mk25 with... Of excited to shoot out my phosphate vs nitride barrel PSA bbls enough for the vast amount of people 55gr cartridge instead the! The outside of the barrel was placed in the salt chamber and after just 8 the! South Texas Arms ( verified owner ) – August 25, 2020 a gun smith custom fit the was! Hc and nitride barrels, all function as intended and are accurate of! Structure to become a harder material 31st January 2020 ; by: lothaen ; with 4 Comments Hello. This article is part 5 of a barrel more accurate what the rougher texture phosphate looks.! Repeat customer of ours in which we built a custom rifle P line •nitride does not require any oils provide... '' nitride 5.56 AR-15 pistol: the best corrosion protection 259 kits I bought, with. Treats both the barrel and bolt … phosphate vs nitride finish barrel began to signs! You some light accuracy testing of the barrel nitride: nitride is becoming more common and slowly replacing parkerizing.